Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/05/1993 02:07 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
March 5, 1993
2:07 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman
Senator Bert Sharp, Vice Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Mike Miller
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Judy Salo
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 51
"An Act providing for establishment of work camps for
juveniles adjudicated delinquent, and extending to all
cities and to nonprofit corporations authority to maintain
facilities for juveniles."
SENATE BILL NO. 45
"An Act relating to persons under 21 years of age; providing
for designation of `safe homes' for runaway minors; and
providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 51 - See HESS minutes dated 2/24/93.
SB 45 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
James Poe, Deputy Chief Probation Officer
Probation Department
2901 Meadowlark Drive
San Diego, California 92123
(619) 694-4440
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 51.
Sandy Pevan
P.O. Box 8712
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 45.
Joe Lawlor
P.O. Box 1133
Homer, Alaska 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 45.
Jim Caldarola, Executive Director
Catholic Social Services
225 Cordova
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
Marilyn Schoder, Member
Alaska Coalition for the Homeless
P.O. Box 2043
Homer, Alaska 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
Emil Portscheller
P.O. Box 2544
Palmer, Alaska 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
Elaine Christian, Executive Director
Covenant House - Alaska
609 "F" Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 45.
Jayne Andreen, Executive Director
South Peninsula Women's Services
P.O. Box 2428
Homer, Alaska 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
Reverend Steve Lambert
Methodist Paster
P.O. Box 332
Homer, Alaska 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
Deborah Wing, Director
Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS)
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions of SB 45.
Pat O'Brien, Social Service Coordinator
Licensing and Regulation
Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS)
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions of SB 45.
Sherrie Goll
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 45.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-20, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health,Education, and
Social Services Committee (HESS) to order at 2:07 p.m.
The first order of business was SB 51 (WORK CAMPS FOR
JUVENILE OFFENDERS). Chairman Rieger said the bill was held
over from the February 24 meeting as Mr. James Poe was going
to be in Juneau. Mr. Poe has considerable experience with
work camps.
JAMES POE, Deputy Chief Probation Officer, Probation
Department, San Diego, California, said funding for camps in
California comes from 58 counties. The state institutions
are the last stage of custody. He said county camps are
totally separate from the state. The ranch facilities in
San Diego are in a very rural setting. There are work camps
for adults and juveniles. Mr. Poe said currently he
oversees all the juvenile institutions for the county which
includes two work camps, a girls treatment facility, and a
juvenile hall. He said in his county, kids are committed to
the facilities for 240 days. He noted that they are kids
that have probably been in the system for awhile. Once the
kids are placed in the facilities, they go through a
multiple step program of counseling, work, school, and
recreation.
Mr. Poe said the work component is one of four main
components. It consists of on camp work jobs, vocational
training work components, as well as working crews. He
explained that the work crews provide services throughout
the community, various county parks, state parks, and
federal forestry parks.
Mr. Poe referred to the adult work crews and said they are
similar. There are two adult camps that do contract work.
He noted it costs just under $500 a day, per crew, to
contract work throughout the city, county and private
entities.
There being no further testimony on SB 51, SENATOR MILLER
moved that SB 51 be passed out of the Senate HESS Committee
with individual recommendations. There were objections. A
roll call was taken. Senators Rieger, Sharp, Miller, and
Leman voted "yes." Senators Ellis and Duncan voted "no."
So the motion passed.
Number 108
The next bill to come before the committee was SB 45 (MISC.
LAWS RELATING TO MINORS). Chairman Rieger announced there
would be a teleconference on the measure. SENATOR DUNCAN
asked if there was a formal position paper on SB 45 from the
administration. CHAIRMAN RIEGER indicated that the answer
is "no."
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, sponsor of SB 45, said the bill is
far from being a perfect bill. It attempts to focus on the
runaway problem that exists in the state. It also attempts
to balance the rights of the child versus the rights of the
parents and who will take what responsibilities.
The first person to testify was SANDY PEVAN from Wasilla.
She thanked Senator Phillips for introducing the
legislation. The bill tries to address all the needs from
both the parent's perspective and child's perspective. She
explained that the Mat-Su Valley has approximately 300
homeless youths and currently 600 runaway youths. The
numbers have escalated over the last year. There is an
increase in violence due to the large number of children on
the streets. Ms. Pevan said approximately 350 children have
reported in to the Department of Health and Social Services.
Of the 350 children, approximately 50 fall in the range of
receiving services from the Department of Health and Social
Services. She said the Mat-Su Valley, last year, tried to
run a safe home program. It was found that there was a lack
of personal coordinators for the homes, there were
questionable liability issues, there was quick burnout, and
a lack of volunteers willing to take the risk of working
with high risk children. She said the Mat-Su Valley
currently is trying to put together a shelter. Ms. Pevan
said another issue is the emancipation part which is to
remove some of the restrictions that parents run into when
they cannot get their children back in the home or work with
them. The impact that the children on the streets are
having within the community needs to be reviewed. There are
escalating numbers of violence, crime, and abuse. Ms. Pevan
said something needs to be done and thanked Senator Phillips
for introducing the bill.
Number 196
JOE LAWLOR, testifying from Homer, referred to information
he had given Senator Sharp a couple of years ago at a
Pioneer Operation Convention in Fairbanks regarding getting
homeless children into homes of pioneers. He said many
pioneer people have room and time but are afraid of the
liability issue. Mr. Lawlor said he is very appreciative of
the work that was done on legislation last year and the
current bill. He suggested the word "runaway" be replaced
with "homeless" as it may have more of a positive affect.
He said all of the kids are homeless whether it is for over
night or a period of time. Mr. Lawlor referred to page 5,
lines 22 and 23, "A safe home may not shelter a runaway
minor for more than seven days...." He said he would like
to see "seven" changed to "twenty-one" as seven days is not
adequate for the department to do anything. Mr. Lawlor
referred to page 7, line 6, and suggested inserting the word
"state" between the words "without compensation." He said
many people might be interested in taking a homeless
teenager into their home but they will have expenses. Some
private groups or organizations may want to help out a
little bit and should have every right to do so. The same
would apply to page 10, line 3. Mr. Lawlor indicated
concern with the term throughout the bill "unless
regulations currently exist." He said he is afraid the
regulations of Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS)
could very easily destroy the intent of the whole bill. He
said you have to relate to the people who would be willing
to take a teenager into their home. Sometimes the
regulations indicate more concern about the physical
attributes of the home and not about the character of the
provider. He thanked the committee for listening to his
testimony.
SENATOR ELLIS asked Mr. Lawlor if he is suggesting opening
the state pioneer homes to troubled youths if they have
available beds. Mr. Lawlor said that wasn't what he was
suggesting. He said there are a lot of state pioneer
organizations and pioneers who have available rooms in their
homes.
JIM CALDAROLA, Executive Director, Catholic Social Services,
explained that his organization is a multi-service
organization serving the homeless, the hungry, troubled
teens, developmentally disabled, pregnant women, immigrants,
refugees, and generally people in despair that need
temporary help. He referred to a report called "Children in
Crises" and read a quote from the introductory letter, "It
is clear that the time has come for improved service to
these lost, but not forgotten children and their families."
It is the opinion of Catholic Social Services that SB 45, as
currently written, does not provide for that improved
service. Mr. Caldarola said the issue of immunity of
liability while operating safe homes are predicated on the
adoption of certain regulations by the Department of Health
and Social Service. The department has failed to improve
and implement the regulations which have been in existence
since 1990. He explained that if the regulations were
approved, safe homes would be legal and safe for youths in
every community and most legislation that has been
introduced would be unnecessary.
Mr. Caldarola said SB 45 presents two separate issues
neither of which help runaways or homeless youths. It gives
parents the right to divorce their child which is action
that will not help runaways resolve family problems. It
will only remove the parent's responsibility. He said SB 45
would set up a safe home system for runaway and homeless
youths without stating a purpose for the existence of the
safe homes. The bill doesn't provide specific and important
safeguards for the youths.
Mr. Caldarola said it is his understanding that there isn't
a fiscal note. Catholic Social Services feels it is
unrealistic of the bill sponsor to expect a safe home
program to cost nothing. He asked who will pay for the
licensing, finger printing, the background checks, and the
record keeping of the safe homes. He continued to discuss
his concerns relating to SB 45.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS indicated that their is a fiscal note
in the committee packets dated January 26, 1993, from the
Department of Health and Social Services.
Senator Duncan requested Mr. Caldarola to send him a copy of
his statement.
Number 367
MARILYN SCHODER, Member, Alaska Coalition for the Homeless,
said her organization doesn't deal specifically with
runaways. She said she is also involved in the food bank in
Homer where homelessness, hungry people, and runaways are
all part of her life. Ms. Schoder said she feels SB 45 is
extremely cumbersome. She informed the committee that she
was part of the "Children in Crises" workshop and children
are probably in more crises now than they were a year and a
half ago. Legislation needs to be passed this session to
help the homeless and runaway children.
EMIL PORTSCHELLER, from Palmer, said SB 45 is a good effort
in the direction of providing for the children and youth of
our state, but there are some problems that need to be
addressed. The bill is cumbersome. He said SB 45 should be
reviewed with the idea in mind as to whether or not the
state is becoming overly involved in the raising of our
children. Mr. Portscheller referred to page 2, "Section 5,
(d)," and said it clearly references another avenue for
usurping a parent/child relationship. He urged that the
section be reviewed. Throughout SB 45 there is general and
specific reference to advising a custodian of an individual
youth not being taken into custody or placed in a state
owned facility. It does reference non-custodial interested
parties, particularly a non-custodial parent. There needs
to be a specific provision to address the parental/child
relationships of non-custodial parents. Mr. Portscheller
said often times there are non-custodial parents who are
completely in the dark as to the status of their children.
It is a frequent occurrence in the state that the judiciary
has quite clearly and wrongfully usurped non-custodial
parents involved with their children. He said he would like
to see that SB 45 does not further entrench that attitude or
approach on the part of the judiciary.
Mr. Portscheller referred to page 8, Section 15, lines 1
through 13, and said the section offers too broad of a
latitude to the state, particularly to the Department of
Health and Social Services. In the first part of SB 45,
there seems to be a fairly clear provision for a child to
have a preference as to where they want to be placed whether
it is with the DFYS, a safe home, etc. Section 15 says "The
department shall also offer counseling services to the
person having legal custody...." He continued to quote from
the middle of the section, "If, after assessing the
situation, considering the wishes of the minor." He said it
goes further to say "and furnishing appropriate social
services to the minor, the department considers it
necessary, the department may take emergency custody of the
minor." Mr. Portscheller said to him that last paragraph
causes great concern. Earlier in the bill it suggests that
a child or youth has several options, yet Section 15 clearly
eliminates those potential options. He thanked the
committee for the opportunity to testify.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS said he recognizes that the bill is
an imperfect piece of legislation and, hopefully, the
committee will come up with good public policy in dealing
with the bill.
Number 449
ELAINE CHRISTIAN, Executive Director, Covenant House -
Alaska, explained her organization is a 40-bed runaway
crises center providing food, clothing, shelter, medical
care, counseling, referral and advocacy for youth and
families. She said her organization doesn't support SB 45.
Ms. Christian said she has sent the committee a copy of her
detailed statement and continued to read from it:
Covenant House feels that there are fundamental
flaws with the legislation, including the fact
that the miscellaneous laws relating to minors are
being proposed in conflict with existing laws and
regulations and that this legislation, as written,
offers a vehicle for anyone to accept runaway
youth into their home -- further placing hundreds
of youth at risk for physical, sexual, mental
and/or emotional abuse.
It is the position of Covenant House that the
existing runaway statute adequately meets the
needs of homeless and runaway youth without
conflicting with existing laws. A vehicle does
exist for interested and qualified parties to
operate a safe home, even in the most rural areas.
The vehicle -- regulations which accompanied the
runaway legislation (AS 47.10) -- if the
Department of Health and Social Services would
approve and implement the regulations which have
been in limbo since 1990, safe homes would be
legal and more importantly, safe for youth in
every community.
In addition, the bill states no purpose for
existence of the safe homes. The current act
(47.10.310) for runaway shelters states that the
program has to attempt to determine why a minor in
the program is a runaway; and be operated with the
goal of reuniting runaway minors with their
families, except in cases in which reunification
is clearly contrary to the best interest of the
minor. At the very least, safe homes should be
committed to and be able to accomplish these
goals.
Ms. Christian referred to the immunity from liability clause
and said it contradicts AS 47.10 and the way SB 45 is
currently written, it could be interpreted that existing
runaway shelters and safe homes are aiding, inducing,
causing, encouraging youth to be absent from the custody of
their parents by offering food, clothing, shelter, etc. The
immunity from liability clause reference is currently being
challenged in the State of Alaska Court. It has not yet
been upheld since the Department of Health and Social
Services has failed to approve and implement the
regulations. Ms. Christian said that means if SB 45 is
passed, no shelter or safe home would be immune from
liability based on the current challenge of the immunity
clause. She said it looks like there is not immunity from
liability as long as the Department of Health and Social
Services doesn't implement those regulations. She said
there are problems identified in the statement that she has
sent the committee. Her organization doesn't feel that SB
45 is in the best interest of youth, family, or the
community. Runaway youth are a difficult population to work
with and need special attention and services, but
regulations which prevent family reunification and further
destroy the youth's chances of re-entering society's
mainstream are not the answer to the problem. She stressed
that the original regulations must be adopted and that
agencies and individuals work with the Department of Health
and Social Services to offer an appropriate means for well
prepared citizens to participate in sheltering homeless and
runaway youth. She noted that the fiscal note wasn't
available at Anchorage Legislative Information Office.
SENATOR ELLIS referred to the court challenge to the
immunity from the liability statute and asked where in court
process is that case. Ms. Christian indicated that they are
now in the appeal process. The Covenant House was hoping
the judge would dismiss the case, but he did not as he could
not come up with a legal means to do it. It wrapped into a
custody battle which relates to immunity from liability for
an act of admitting or not admitting a child to a facility.
She said the way SB 45 is written, there would be no
immunity for anyone operating safe homes or a runaway
shelter because of the challenge. Ms. Christian said they
have been in court for eight months and there hasn't been a
resolution. She noted both parties will take it as far as
it will go.
SENATOR SHARP asked who the parties are in the court case.
Ms. Christian said some parents are suing Covenant House -
Alaska.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked if the Covenant House could have
liability for failing to admit a youth as well as liability
for admitting a youth. Ms. Christian said that is the way
it is looking under the current challenge. She explained
the way the suit is written, the Covenant House admitted a
youth and the youth chose to leave the facility and the
state. Because the Covenant House did not hold on to or
delay the child, the parents are saying that the Covenant
House is liable for separation of parent and child. She
said there are about four issues involved including
kidnapping. Ms. Christian said if SB 45 is passed as
written, parents could sue Covenant House for facilitating
the children from being absent from their parents.
Number 539
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, South Peninsula Women's
Services, concurred with changing the terms "runaway minors"
to "homeless minors." She referred to a phrase on page 1,
line 9, "properly qualified private citizens" and said she
would like to see a reference made to regulations that would
specifically address the need to protect youth and that the
citizens would be screened. Ms. Andreen referred to lines
12 and 13, "interested nonprofit corporations" and said she
would like to see that more specifically delineated along
the lines where human service agencies that have experience
with youth or an interest in youth.
Ms. Andreen referred to page 2, line 1 "involve less
regulation," and said she disagrees with that. She said she
believes there are enough regulations that allow for checks
and balances to ensure the protection of the children who
will be in the homes. Ms. Andreen referred to line 7 and
said she doesn't agree with parents who are able to divorce
their kids as parents should be held liable for their
children.
Ms. Andreen referred to page 5, line 23, and said she would
like to see "seven days" increased to "ninety days" as it is
much more realistic in terms of being able to do an
assessment to figure what agencies need to be in place and
what kinds of services that a child needs. Also, on line 27
it says, "The provider of a safe home shall promptly inform
the department of a runaway minor..." She said there should
be time limit on that. Ms. Andreen suggested 24 to 48 hours
would be enough time for the safe home providers to get in
touch with the department. She said she would be interested
in seeing the fiscal note. There was discussion in Homer
about doing a pilot project. Ms. Andreen stressed that
homeless teens are a major issue and it is something that
needs to be addressed quickly.
REVEREND STEVE LAMBERT, Methodist Paster, informed the
committee that he has worked with kids in Homer and Juneau.
He also noted he is a member of the Homer Safe Harbor Board.
Reverend Lambert urged that something be done regarding
homeless kids. He asked that regulations be passed in DFYS
or wherever they are needed. It is time for a change to
occur, Reverend Lambert concluded.
TAPE 93-20, SIDE B
Number 00
DEBORAH WING, Director, Division of Family and Youth
Services (DFYS), Department of Health and Social Services,
was next to come before the committee. She introduced Pat
O'Brien, Social Service Coordinator, Licensing and
Regulation, (DFYS), Department of Health and Social
Services.
PAT O'BRIEN explained that the department is very supportive
of the concept of safe homes. She said the department also
supports the concept of safe homes operating at a little
lower level of regulation than what child foster homes
currently have. Child foster homes provide care for
children from birth through the age of 18. She said safe
homes would basically be for teenagers. Ms. O'Brien
referred to comments made by Ms. Christian regarding the law
suit. She said the department produced an affidavit for the
law suit and consulted with the Department of Law. One of
the problems was the issue of discharge and non admission.
Existing law only addresses admission or failure to admit
and the law suit revolves around the discharge of a child
from Covenant House. Ms. O'Brien explained that the
department had developed draft regulations specifically
around Covenant House, for a residential setting. She noted
that virtually all residential child care facilities serve
runaway children. Ms. O'Brien said the Department of Law
reviewed the regulations and decided it was perfectly
appropriate for the department to make a specialization for
residential child care facilities for runaway programs.
Given that Covenant House is already licensed and
residential child care facilities are licensed, the
department hasn't prioritized bringing back the runaway
regulations.
SENATOR ELLIS said in Anchorage on some houses there are
yellow signs with black letters that say "Safe Home." Kids
are encouraged to run there if anything happens on the way
to or from school. He asked if those are informal safe
homes and if they are unregulated or unlicensed. Ms.
O'Brien said she raised that same issue on legislation
introduced last year and suggested a different title be
used. She said those safe homes are locally sponsored
through public service organizations, aren't monitored by
the department, and don't have children there overnight.
Senator Ellis questioned why the runaway regulations haven't
been a priority over the years. Ms. O'Brien said she wasn't
part of the original drafting of the regulations. She said
there was concern expressed by existing residential child
care facilities that they were also serving runaways. Ms.
O'Brien said the Department of Law has said that the basic
intent of reducing risk to children is met because Covenant
House and all the residential child care facilities are
already licensed.
SENATOR LEMAN requested a copy of the proposed draft
regulations. Ms. O'Brien indicated she would forward them
to the committee.
Senator Ellis asked the department to comment on previous
testimony where there was criticism that the bill gave too
broad of a latitude to the department in a number of areas.
He said there was a suggestion to change the term "runaway"
to "homeless" to include the throw away youths. Senator
Ellis asked if there would be any implications to changing
the term. Senator Ellis said if parents were allowed to
waive responsibility through the emancipation process or if
the numbers rise, what kinds of direct or indirect costs
would there be to the government. CHAIRMAN RIEGER indicated
that Senator Ellis' questions would be answered later and
requested Ms. O'Brien to discuss the department's proposed
changes.
Ms. O'Brien said the first proposed change is on page 2,
line 3, delete the word "protect" and insert "reduce the
risk to." She noted it is a liability issue for the state
as they are often sued for failing to absolutely protect
children in the licensing responsibilities. She said
absolute protection cannot be guaranteed. Senator Ellis
asked if the bill would give greater protection to safe
homes than is given to foster parents. Ms. O'Brien said the
foster parents have a lot of liability because they are
protected through risk management. That same level of
protection would not be offered to a safe home. Children in
foster homes are in state custody and that is the difference
from children who run to a safe home.
SENATOR SHARP said he would think that safe homes would
require more of a release of liability as they are not being
paid for their services by the state. Ms. O'Brien said she
did meet with an attorney who expressed strong concern over
the additional liability that the state continues to assume
on behalf of services that are delivered. She suggested
requesting to hear from Risk Management on that issue.
Ms. O'Brien referred to the department's second proposed
amendment on page 10, line 3, after "shelter" insert "with
or." She said the department believes that the facilities
ought to be regulated whether there is compensation or not.
The kids are still children and youth and are still
vulnerable.
Ms. O'Brien said the third amendment is on page 9, lines 4
and 5, delete all the material and insert "(2) provide that
private agencies, approved by the department, may recruit,
evaluate and monitor the safe homes under procedures
established by the department." SENATOR ELLIS said if the
amendment is adopted, how long will it take the department
to promulgate procedures. MS. WING indicated that it would
depend on the fiscal note.
Senator Ellis suggested changing the words "safe home" to
something else as people may confuse them with the existing
safe homes.
Number 250
SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, said the bill has two
separate sections. One that deals with miscellaneous laws
relating to minors, and the second deals with the creation
of the safe homes. She referred to page 2, sections 2
through 7, relating to the emancipation of minors and said
her organization objects to those sections as they may
encourage parents to throw away their kids. Ms. Goll
referred to SB 99 and said the Office of Public Advocacy was
anxious to not have the responsibility of representing
minors in emancipation hearings. The Senate has already
deleted those sections from SB 99. She said it is currently
a concern and would be much more of concern if it came to a
situation where SB 45 is passed and parents were able to
petition, without a minor's consent, to not be responsible
for a minor at sixteen years of age and the minor was not
eligible to have a public advocate.
Ms. Goll referred to page 5, line 22, relating to the
operation of a safe home, and said there are concerns
relating to the fact that whether a youth is left at a safe
home for seven days or ninety days, the department would
have the opportunity to determine that another appropriate
setting is not available for the minor. Because they are
free settings, the department will have less motivation to
try to find an actual appropriate setting for a "hard to
place" teenage child. Ms. Goll referred to line 27, "(b)
The provider of a safe home shall promptly inform the
department if there is a minor who claims to be a victim of
child abuse and neglect," and said her organization feels
that the department needs to be informed if they learn that
the child is also in state custody. Ms. Goll indicated that
she was also concerned about the immunity from liability
section and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. She
said when she first read the bill, it seemed that we were
creating a crime that all of the people who had safe homes
would be guilty of unless there was some kind of immunity.
If there is a problem with the immunity clause, then that
continues to be a problem.
Ms. Goll referred to page 7, line 2, and asked the committee
to consider the addition of "negligence" to the phrase
"recklessness or intentional misconduct." She said it is
wonderful to try to offer counseling services to the kids.
Her organization recognizes it will be a service that will
not be free. She said she hopes that there will be a fiscal
note which will accomplish that and allow that to happen.
She also questioned how many children a safe home can take
in. Ms. Goll suggested that on page 9, "Section (d)," maybe
there should be a provision for the department to have the
legal obligation to inspect or investigate the home. She
thanked the committee for hearing her testimony.
SENATOR ELLIS referred to Section 9, "(3) being a person
under 21 years of age, posses a firearm without the written
consent of a parent or guardian of the person," and asked if
the committee could get the position of the National Rifle
Association.
SENATOR DUNCAN gave the committee members a proposed
amendment. He asked that the committee review it before the
measure is brought up again.
Number 232
There being no further business to come before the HESS
Committee, CHAIRMAN RIEGER adjourned the meeting at 3:25
p.m.
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